We talk about leadership in sustainability, design activism and navigating a career in science when you’re not a scientist.
Editor CAROLINE PAIGE
This FEMALE LEADERS interview is with Dian-Jen Lin, the co-founder of Post Carbon Lab. It’s a biotech creating a sustainable textile finishing that actually improves the environment. They’re focused on a post-carbon future. One where manufacturing regenerates rather than depletes the natural world. Post Carbon Lab’s zero-waste microbial colours use photosynthesis to remove carbon dioxide from the air. Dian-Jen tells me that one t-shirt with Post Carbon Lab’s treatment can produce more oxygen than a tree.
Dian-Jen’s career in fashion took her from Taiwan to the US and France. But it was here, in the UK, that she found her passion for sustainability and design activism. Dian-Jen recently won funding from Innovate UK and we met after a fellow winner introduced us. We chatted online whilst Dian-Jen (Dj) was at her London lab. I wanted to know more about her career journey and how she discovered a passion for microbiology.
So Dj…
What is Post Carbon Lab?
Post Carbon Lab supports textile-based businesses to incorporate more sustainable textile processes – like dyeing and coating. Finishing and dyeing processes contribute to the largest portion of the textile manufacturing footprint. It’s a massive contributor to emissions because it requires a lot of water and carbon intensive chemicals. These processes also use heavy metals, carcinogens and mutagens. They make colours stick better, withstand UV light and resist natural degradation. Using chemicals to control these properties has poisoned us and polluted the environment.
Post Carbon Lab helps textile businesses find a microbial way to create sustainable colours. And we produce prototypes in our small manufacturing unit onsite. We work across disciplines to find solutions. We’re looking to a future that doesn’t rely on carbon intensive infrastructures for manufacturing or lifestyles.

What was your career journey before Post Carbon Lab?
I started in the textile and fashion industry in Taiwan before moving to the fashion district in New York. It sounds fancy, but we know how the fashion industry works. It’s a depressing and exploitative experience. Friends that still work in the American fashion industry often see counsellors and take antidepressants. It’s a toxic environment.
Why do you think the fashion industry is so toxic?
The fashion industry is built on hierarchical exploitation. That translates into office dynamics. On the second day of my new job in New York, my manager cried. She took me to a staircase where she wouldn’t be overheard. She told me people above her had made mistakes and were blaming her. She couldn’t defend herself to the corporate. I was in my mid-twenties and this was my first impression of life in New York.
I worked in a luxury fashion house. The brand was prominent and aspirational. But behind the scenes – behind the glamorous runway shows and a very beautiful front – it was the complete opposite. They weren’t treating their people well. They were burned out. Often, they weren’t even treating themselves well. Only the top 1% of people benefit from this hierarchical exploitation.
It’s not just New York. I’ve met business owners who’ve worked at brands like Topshop and ASOS and left because it was draining and toxic. It’s a systemic problem. After two or three years of it, I decided to step out of fashion.
What path did your career take next?
I moved to France and worked in design workshops with designers who were pushing boundaries. They were mixing crazy disciplines and creating mind-blowing projects. Then, I came to London to do a masters in sustainability and that was how my career pivoted.
I’ve always had an interest in biology and microbiology. I had a crazy idea and it led to me working with scientists as part of a sustainable fashion competition with the Kering Group and Stella McCartney. They funded a small project and I picked up microbiological protocols, serialisation techniques, cultivation – things I didn’t get to explore in Taiwan.
After that, I applied for other opportunities. A biotech community in West London provided free access to labs, studio space and a network of life science businesses. We met people creating cool things like lab-grown protein (meat) and bespoke microbial skin care products. It expanded our ideas about what we could be. That’s when Post Carbon Lab started.

What are the biggest challenges for Post Carbon Lab?
The challenge is to disrupt the existing system in the fashion industry. We’re in the twenty-first century but we’re operating within eighteenth and nineteenth century mechanisms. All the garments you’re wearing have been sewn by somebody. Hundreds of people touch an item of clothing before it even reaches a retail store. Other sectors are pushing digital innovation (like robotics).
In Taiwan, fashion and textile industries are called traditional or sunset industries (meaning they’re going downhill). I had to work with an industry with this mindset. People have said they don’t believe in what we offer. But there are people at the top of the fashion industry who get it.
When I won the Kering award for sustainable fashion, I realised industry professionals at top brands think there’s value in what I do. We knew it would be a long journey. I wouldn’t do it if it was easy. There’d be no value in it. I’ve been a dystopian. Now, I’m a utopian. The thing I’m doing is slowly making the world better. I know that, because we make decisions based on what will be better for the environment and consumers. We try to justify why we exist.
During the pandemic, we saw that nature can heal on its own. The more we do the more damage we create. If humans sleep all day – and do nothing but rest in the comfort of what we already have – rivers start running cleaner and the air starts getting clearer. Nature is better without us. So, we need to justify as a business that what we’re doing is making things somewhat better.
Changing yourself is the beginning of leadership.
What is leadership in sustainability?
I suppose, in the context of sustainability, leadership means changing other people’s behaviour. It’s how you facilitate systematic and behavioural change. I used to take a more activist approach – talking about issues and raising awareness. I’d talk about not needing fossil fuels for textile dyes and tell people we can do better.
But putting a lot of this energy outward is exhausting. And, you’re just saying listen to me and do this better. People who’re not within the same bubble won’t relate to your message.
I’d go to panel talks and see similar faces. I wouldn’t see, say, people from a Muslim background or people from ethnic minorities. So, I decided to start referencing things I’ve learnt from Asian philosophies. For instance, if you want to change people you need to start by changing yourself. It’s leading by example. So you can show people that change is possible. And doesn’t need to be expensive or mean becoming a completely different person.
So, for me, changing yourself is the beginning of leadership. We want to embed the seed of activism.

What is design activism?
Design activism means embedding the seed of regenerative and sustainable activism into design. It’s consciously including a behavioural nudge for activism. One that goes beyond marketing or function. In our case, we use a textile treatment (our photosynthetic coating). We embed that activism in the design of the item’s entire life cycle.
I think it’s easiest to understand when I use two examples.
Normal fashion brands tend to look at trends of what people want. Those trends are usually created by trend agencies. They look at what youngsters are Instagramming or TikToking about. They create trend insights. Then they look at these insights and say, yellow is going to be Gen Z’s favourite colour and they like crop tops. So, we’re gonna make lots of yellow crop tops. They make yellow crop tops. They sell them. They look at the data to see if it failed or succeeded and either make more or less of that thing. And that’s the fashion garment cycle.
Activism involves a rebellious reverting or subverting of the original system.
When we embed our photosynthetic coating into a garment or textile, the users must adopt a completely different care cycle to what they’re used to. It means forming a relationship with the garment through continuous care. It’s like looking after a plant or a pet. The garment needs misting, wearing in a ventilated space and storing in a shaded area. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship. The garment provides oxygen and you provide carbon dioxide – so you can co-prosper.
It’s a completely different interaction cycle to fast fashion. Design activism tries to break a systematic cycle that’s not designed for human wellness.
Why isn’t more research interdisciplinary?
There’s an issue with the scientific community seeing the value of interdisciplinary collaboration. When I first looked for scientists to collaborate with, they didn’t see the point. Science is largely male. And we find they don’t engage with the problem – fashion. They hear we work with algae and assume we’re in biofuels or agricultural fertiliser. If you’re not in those fields they’re generally not interested.
But we’re seeing signs that the scientific community is starting to understand the need to measure impact. For instance, let’s say scientists are embedding a new mechanism to make plastic recycling easier, cheaper and more convenient. If they don’t look at how people interact with plastic, how will they inform the processes needed to get it to the recycling point?
Creating a solution in isolation isn’t enough. We’re seeing a growing understanding of the importance of communicating these messages. What’s more efficient at communicating messages than art and design?
We’ve got to keep knocking on the doors of those who’re still very fixed in their way of thinking. And of those who won’t let us in because we don’t have the right degree. We’ve got to break down those walls and silos to allow information to flow freely.
We’ve got to keep knocking on the doors of those who’re still very fixed in their way of thinking.

Can you recommend a good read?
I’m a big fan of Sapiens by the anthropologist Yuval Noah Harari. It’s his observations and understanding of humankind as a species.
Who inspires you?
I adore the work of Professor Helen Story. And I really like Rachel Carson, who wrote The Silent Spring. She was an environmental activist in the sixties. She wrote about pesticides and monoculture farming creating food chain cycles that were reducing insect and bird populations. She spoke out against the pesticide and agriculture conglomerates that were part of capitalist-driven farming.
You need to be comfortable with change.
If you’re not, change is still coming.
What areas of personal development have been important for you?
My work involves challenging people’s views. I’ve taught myself to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations, so I can lead. And I’ve learnt to observe people. Because if you push people too far they’ll disengage. I’m not saying I never feel awkward. We’re all humans and we all have those emotions. It’s about understanding that we’re all in this together. And gauging what level of uncomfortableness people can endure.
It’s important to know that the only constant is change. You need to be comfortable with change. If you’re not, change is still coming.
I used to struggle with imposter syndrome. But if you apply for something or reach out to someone, the worst response you can get is no. If you don’t try, you don’t give yourself any chance. If they say no, it just means not now. It doesn’t mean not ever.
I picked a difficult journey. If I’d picked an easy route, it wouldn’t satisfy my ikigai – my purpose. I could choose an easier option and work in another fashion textile business. We would have to justify growth, sell as much as we could and ask consumers to buy stuff they don’t need. We don’t wear around 20 to 50% of the clothes in our closet. The clothes that are already manufactured can probably clothe everybody in this world. But we’re still making more. I don’t want to be part of that any more.
Post Carbon Lab could be a lot more things. We’re exploring various applications in multiple sectors – where there could be huge impact. And we could play our small part in helping that. I think that’s better than me watching the news – feeling sad and infuriated – and not doing anything. If you’re going to do that, you might as well just sleep all day. That’s really low impact for the environment too.

Post Carbon Lab was founded by Dian-Jen Lin and Hannes Hulstaert in 2019. And they create sustainable microbial colours in their lab in east London. They want their work to be accessible and aim to act like a social enterprise – encouraging experimentation and collaboration.
Dian-Jen’s career pivoted from luxury fashion to microbiology. And she found a way to weave these two interests into one business. Multipotentiality is something Lauren Rosegreen talks about in her FEMALE LEADERS interview. Read Lauren Rosegreen’s interview here.